Craft randomness

[cromcrom]

I pretty much hate craft when you know the results according to your level. As always, I love some randomness here.
All my craft systems where this way (and took a lot of time to create, mostly because the games I was modding weren't really good for this)
Up to 5 or 6 different iterations of one item:
poor dagger, normal dagger, good dagger, masterwork dagger, legendary dagger, for example.

Then, in case of success, a chance to randomly get one of these items. Depending of course on quite a lot of variables, like attributes, skill (mostly), tools, workshop, ingredients, knowledge of the item to craft.

So a novice would probably create a poor, or sometimes good dagger (or destroy the components alltogether), and a legendary smith could create mostly and easily masterwork item, and sometimes legendary stuff.

One thing that was easy in NWN2 was to dynamically add powers to items. So items would have a random number of random powers on them, that would appear when created. No item was ever the same, for a great replay value of the craft.

[Obsyd]

I think we both really like the random nature of things!
Yes! There will be a random element to nearly everything.
Something like: (70% pre defined and 30% random, stats on items), but these chances can be altered in different ways.

[Bearhug67]

As long the players doesn't invent by chance gun powder or splits an atom.
Then the gods have mercy on the world of Balrun

I remember how players played after numerous dungeons a first 'modern' rpg game and blew themselves up by several occasions after the motto 'much helps much' before they learned the fine art of moderation ;p

[Mark Rushow]

There could be a mini game for the player to determine the quality of the crafted item. Like a simple rhythm game. I'd much prefer that. Make it my fault if I end up with crap results.

[Jalister]

(10-25-2013 03:23 PM)Mark Rushow Wrote:  There could be a mini game for the player to determine the quality of the crafted item. Like a simple rhythm game. I'd much prefer that. Make it my fault if I end up with crap results.

If it's anything like a QTE, I'd rather not have it. Too many games are using them in combat and crafting. With a turn based RPG, I'd prefer my stats determine quality.

[Mark Rushow]

What I mean is something that is still very much so based on your stats. Your stats would determine the difficulty of the mini game or if the action can be attempted at all. I think of something like Legend of Dragoon combat but for crafting or something simple like Gear of War when reloading your weapon to get that extra damage bonus. Just leaving it all up to chance and stats is really disheartening. Even in simple combat you aren't just based on stats you make choices that weigh heavily on the outcome. To fight, flee, use item, charge (some games). Then there is which character attacks which enemy, which move does that character use. or which item does the character use. Combat is not left to only chance and stats nor should crafting be it seems to me.

[yarnevk]

Not a mini game fan outside of lock picking where is makes sense that you have to align the tumblers or something, because it is an occasional thing. But crafting is often a repetitive thing, being an apprentice is making a lot of useless wooden swords to practice, so mini-games get old really fast, since mini-games can never really mimic the art and science of actually crafting something it turns into stupid wack the mole sessions.


As long as you have skills and tools to improve your odds I am OK with realistic randomness, that masterwork gear is harder for a noob to make but he has an odd chance, same as a master has an odd chance of slipping and making crude gear. This is not the same thing as randomly rolling a die to see what you get with you having no control. Even D&D has bonuses and multiple die to tilt the odds, it is the character skill that decides things not the players skills throwing the die (despite their rituals in doing so). The player only decides strategy of attempting to roll the die or not, or doing something else their character is more suited for, but you should leave it to the character skills to decide the outcome of things, not the player skills. If player skills controlled things then there is no point in having a skilled character, because if the player sucks at mini-games as badly as they suck at dance party games, you have nerfed their skilled character.

To provide entertainment during crafting, do what Skyrim did and actually play an animation of you actually using the workbench rather than treating the workbench as a window. That makes crafting immerssive even though you are still just clicking on resources.

[Jalister]

I like how you put it yarnevk. I for one believe Balrum could be a game that I can also relax in. Crafting that is skill based seems like something I would enjoy. I wish the answer could always be make it an option to choose either, so both sides can be happy. Unfortunately a decision usually has to be made instead.

[Mark Rushow]

Oh I'd be happy either way really just a suggestion and preference really.

[yarnevk]

It is one of those things that you think you want until it gets implemented then you realize that when you want to play Candy Crush you will logon to facebook and play it, and get really really annoyed with it happening to your character in an RPG even though you like wacking candies.

It is not something you can make optional because when it gets added the first thing people do is complain they won the mini-game and should get rewarded, even though they was already rewarded with entertainment while crafting. Then they complain their gear is OP and the mobs needs to be not so easy, thus it becomes a required mini-game to win.

If anyone ever implements an optional algorithm that truly captures the complexity of master crafting I would be all for it, some extra bonus on top of skill/resource based default that cost lots of time and effort and knowledge balanced to not get OP results nor be required to win. But I would much rather they first do like Skyrim did and show my character using the workbench, I get so tired of crafting windows disconnecting me from the game.

So here is an idea, implement as a stand alone social game with an RPG theme that crafting subinvokes, that pokes all your friends reminding them they need to be playing the game you are, for effective advertising, making it opt-in with no impact on game play at all. Have at it! Just be prepared to revamp it when the players tire of it and move onto the next flavor of the month social game, leaving you embarrassed to be caught playing with your crushed candies.