To scale or not to Scale

[Galaad]

This is copied from my post in CromCrom's road thread hence why the begining is talking of roads and trails.. But I felt like scaling was an important enough question to merit its own thread.

Hehe, building a road "solo" would probably be too much and too long...But movement on roads could maybe be safer or faster.

Depending on how the enemies are generated, this could be fairly important. In most indie community I've seen, players tend to really dislike level scaling from the mobs...But at the same time you don't want the adventure to be either too hard or to easy.

So roads, trails and such can end up playing an important role as the bigger/badder monsters tend to stay away from the more actively used paths. So without using scaling, a low skill/level player can stick to safer areas by following roads while the experienced adventurer can treck through dense forest and monsters dens.

Sorry to somewhat Hijack your thread, but that brings me to say that I like a mix of scaled and non scaled ...For example lets say the players can go up to level 40 in this game... A "mid game" bad bad monster that we'll name CromxCromx is balanced more or less against players level 20. So a player coming across CromxCromx at level 12 should get ready to run and fast...

But what happens if that same player spent time exploring a lot and comes across CromxCromx at level 27...The fight is over before it even begins and the Big mob ended up being as easy as common fodder. I think it may be a good idea to give above a certain point a bit of "upscaling" to important mobs/bosses to keep the fight entertaining.

That way, CromxCromx the bad monster will range from lvl 20-30 depending when you come across him. It kinda makes sense anyway. Why would our player be the only one using his time to improve and get stronger?. But I think its also important to put a limit on said scale, so CromxCromx can never go above lvl 30 (he's not our hero after all)...That way, if it is possible to do so, a player coming back around there at max level 40 will be able to trash him and feel like his character is really badass.

G.

[cromcrom]

I personnaly is against scaling. If you miss the monster, then you will also probably miss the benefits of it (items, experience, whatever), and will need something more akin to your current level anyway.

Moreover, Non scaling is a big part of the feeling of getting more powerful.

That cromxcromx (duuuude ;-) ) monster is kicking your ass now. After a few levels, you come back for a revenge. Moreover, hard bosses can give you a sense of being good or not, and compare various "builds": Will an archer fare better than a swordman against that Gagalaad Monster ?

However, a leveling boss sounds great.

[Galaad]

Right, just to make it clear I'll say that I am AGAINST scaling in the case of all normal encounters.

But in the case of rare mobs/bosses I'm willing to make an exception to be sure they feel really special! But even then, keep it within certain boundaries.

The idea is to make it "seamless", by keeping it within a certain range and only for certain mobs. The player probably wont notice it is there and yet get to enjoy the fight.

Heck, to make it a little more seamless..and (I guess) more complicated for devs/coders. You could make the scaling follow a slower curve than the player's leveling curve.

Whats the point of this? Simple, it goes with what I said...make it seamless. The fight should still be interesting, but the player as he levels up will start to feel that he's a little stronger than said boss as he levels up and he doesn't notice the boss "scaling" at all.

example:
Player X is level 15 ...Meets CromxCromx who is level 20.
Player x is level 20 ...CromxCromx is also level 20.
Player x is level 25 ...CromxCromx is level 24. (1 lvl difference at a certain threshold)
Player x is level 30 ...CromxCromx is level 28. (2 lvl differnece at another threshold)
Player x is level 35 ...CromxCromx is level 30 (Boss never goes above 30 in this scenario)

[cromcrom]

And what about some random boss spawn, tied to whatever quest/random event/object activation ?
Whatever the player level, the creature would be scaled, and such make the encounter interesting.
Basic/permanent/respawning monsters, on the other hand, would not be scaled.

[daveyd]

I'm against scaling. I think that it really detracts from the satisfaction of your character gradually increase in skill if random monsters are also increasing in power. That said, I think that leveling up should be relatively slow, i.e., you shouldn't quickly go from inexperienced to god-like warrior. I don't like how in D&D you gain so many HP; A blow from a sword should be a pretty serious wound for anyone... even an experienced fighter. A skilled fighter should be better at dodging, but not able to shrug off dozens of wounds that would have killed someone else.